IMHO, Education is the enemy of the WT because they use really dumb bible study techniques that are easily corrected with a little bit of education. The Mormons don't have this problem since they just wrote their own bible.... problem solved.
Sea Breeze
JoinedPosts by Sea Breeze
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Do you think the JW's ever will or could go the Mormon route?
by BettyHumpter inwhat i mean is the mormon's have their own set of wacky beliefs and are a pretty insular group, engage in a form of door to door ministry but don't discourage higher education.
in fact, the handful of mormons i went to school with were pushed to excel academically and go to college.
yeah there are ex mormons but for a great many, going to university doesn't turn them into atheists.
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Newspaper Article about JWs resuming door knocking
by fred1 infrom the houston chronicle.
isn't it wonderful how jws don't judge anyone and love everyone?.
jehovah’s witnesses have restarted their door-to-door ministry after more than two and a half years on hiatus due to the coronavirus pandemic, reviving a religious practice that the faith considers crucial and cherished.. from coast to coast, members of the christian denomination fanned out in cities and towns thursday to share literature and converse about god for the first time since march 2020.. in the jamaica plain neighborhood on the south side of boston, dan and carrie sideris spent a balmy morning walking around knocking on doors and ringing bells.
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Sea Breeze
And the destruction of families continues…..those evil little kids. -
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
To suggest that Jesus in spread among all faithful, literally dwelling in them by some spirit indwelling is Spiritualism.
@Vienne (Annie) - And that is the point of my post. If Jesus is merely an angel, no other conclusion could be reached. Yet, the idea of Jesus inhabiting each born-again believer is peppered throughout the NT.
What does it mean that Christ is in us?
Many passages of Scripture communicate that Jesus Christ lives within those who trust Him for salvation (2 Corinthians 13:5). While this is an astonishing truth, it isn’t easy to grasp. Not only is Jesus Christ alive today, but through God’s Holy Spirit—called the “Spirit of Christ” in Romans 8:9—He lives and dwells within every child of God. The life of Christ in us is our hope of eternal glory. The apostle Paul called the indwelling of Christ a great mystery: “To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory” (Colossians 1:27).
Paul often spoke of Christ taking up residence in the hearts of those who accept Him as Lord and Savior. When he prayed for the believers in Ephesus, Paul longed for their faith to deepen so that Christ would be at home in their hearts: “I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit. Then Christ will make his home in your hearts as you trust in him. Your roots will grow down into God’s love and keep you strong” (Ephesians 3:16–17, NLT).
When a person believes in Jesus, he or she is united to Christ, first in His death and then in the newness of His resurrection life. The apostle Paul said, “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20). Paul explained to the church in Rome, “For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was” (Romans 6:4–5, NLT).
Our old selves—full of rebellion, sin, and unbelief—died with Christ, who paid the penalty for our sins on the cross. Through our union with Christ in His death, we are made alive by God’s Spirit to walk in the newness of life because we have been made right with God (Romans 8:10). Our lives become a vehicle to display the life of Christ: “For God, who said, ‘Let light shine out of darkness,’ made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body” (2 Corinthians 4:6–10; see also Galatians 1:15–16).
In our ordinary human condition of weakness, we are but jars of clay holding a priceless treasure—the life of Christ in us. The challenges we face, the persecution, trials, hardship, and suffering we endure, serve to pour out the all-surpassing power of God and reveal the life of Jesus Christ to those around us. We can rest assured that we will not be overcome in all these afflictions because we have the treasure of Jesus Christ living in us.
In 2 Corinthians 2:15, Paul likened the lives of those who share the gospel to “a Christ-like fragrance rising up to God” (NLT) and “the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing” (NIV). With Christ in us, as we spread the good news of salvation in Jesus, we diffuse His fragrance to a lost and dying world.In 1 Corinthians 6:19, Paul states, “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own.” After we receive Jesus as Lord, He becomes our master. In the booklet My Heart Christ’s Home (InterVarsity Press, 1954), author Robert Munger imaginatively describes the Christian life as a house. When Jesus enters, He goes from room to room. In the library of our minds, Christ sorts through the garbage, cleaning out the worthless trash. In the kitchen, he deals with our unhealthy appetites and sinful desires. At the dining room table, He serves us the bread of life to satisfy our hungry souls and pours living water for us to drink and never be thirsty again. Through dark hallways and closets, Jesus uncovers all the places where sin hides. He works His way through every nook and cranny until His love, mercy, forgiveness, and grace have filled every space. This allegory presents a beautiful picture of what it means to have Christ in us.
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Christianity is not behavior modification. It is not about trying harder, running faster, or jumping through hoops. Jesus does it all for the believer.... from the inside. He made us. He knows what he is doing.
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
Demons believe the same and shudder. Are they Christians too?
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
I view the WT and JWs as also being a part of Christianity
The WT is as far from biblical Christianity as you can get. They teach that Jehovah is not your father (only potentially your father). They teach that Jesus isn't your Mediator, and that You cannot be Justified.
Would you like to see the WT quotes on these? They are a very poor and wretched fake. They literally lie through their teeth publicly on street corners and say that they do believe and teach this stuff. Only you find out later after baptism that they lied to you. Then, it's too late. By that time, they have their hooks into you and your family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwH_USEzpU&t=9s&ab_channel=BibleReady
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
If Jesus Christ was present among Christians gathered together in his name, then the various groups of Christians wouldn't be doctrinally divided, yet they are greatly divided doctrinally
@DJW - The WT has been claiming this, but the truth of the matter is Bible-believing Christians are united in the essentials - Justification, Sanctification & Glorification.
From there, the tent is plenty big enough to accommodate non-essential diversity of thought. Go and learn the difference between unity and uniformity.
DJW says:
A relevant question to ask within this topic is the following. "Do JWs want Jesus or Jehovah to live instead of them?" I think that if JWs (and maybe even non-evangelical Christians in general) were to think about the idea of Jesus or Jehovah/YHWH (God the Father) living inside of them, then most of them would dislike the idea, but perhaps I am wrong about that.
Finally you got something right DJW! The idea of self-abandonment is utterly foreign to our nature. This is an adult problem. Little kids (in loving homes) don't have this problem.
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. - Jesus
Usually people don't make this kind of decision until they are squeezed. I personally believe that when people get near death, the price seems all the sudden very acceptable.
When the Roman legions showed up on the edge of your territory, the terms were a small percentage of your wealth. This seemed reasonable to many peoples. They got a free army in exchange and didn't have to worry about the maurading bands of barbarians as much.
Likely, people thought Jesus would maybe strike some kind of similar deal. In the scripture above, Jesus sets forth his terms for peace. It is quite simple: ALL OF IT. -
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
Smiddy,
Your question bothered me a fair amount for around 10 years after getting saved and born again. I don’t know if it had something to do with my JW background or because I am naturally self-willed person.
I don’t recall any other born again Christians wrestling with this question like I did. Kinda like a marriage, you do the best you can to choose wisely, but you never really know until you take the plunge.
All I can say is that the Spirit of God seems to run like some kind of background program…. Somewhat similar to the sub-conscious mind that effortlessly helps us reach our goals, mostly outside of our awareness.
The self isn’t lost, it is more like it is finally found.
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
Axiomatically, this is symbolic like saying “God is my throne”.
@Fisherman: No, it is not.
AXIOM: A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.
Is it self-evident that inanimate objects do not inhabit other people, yes. It is NOT SELF-EVIDENT at all that the spirit of God is the same as a chair and cannot inhabit people. To compare the two and claim that it is self-evident is evidence of a reprobate mind in my opinion. In other words, it's retarded.
Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates - 2 Cor. 13: 5
@Smiles :
If Jesus dwells inside of people, why is he apparently not present where only ONE has gathered in his name?
As previously mentioned by another poster, "one" cannot gather. Furthermore, when Jesus said this, it was before Pentecost and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Before Pentecost, Jesus was in the midst of any gathering in his name. (Omnipresence is a Characteristic of God, not angels btw) After Pentecost his spirit inhabited the believer.
The problem is that the bible and the WT say opposite things about this topic. The bible says Jesus gives us understanding. But the WT says that they do!
Compare This:
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true—His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5: 20
But the WT says understanding comes from them alone:
With This:
Even with all the aids that are available no one can understand the Bible unless he engages in private study...He must also associate with others of God’s organization - w57 6/1 pp. 325-328“Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, page 587)
“Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.” (The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, page 27)
“We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah’s visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own.” (The Watchtower, December 1, 1990, page 19)
“All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.” (The Watchtower, October 1, 1994, page 8)
Just like in the Garden of Eden, we have a choice to make regarding whom to believe. This is why we are declared righteous by faith and not by works. Belief, precedes sin. It is a matter of our volition, not deeds. A moment before Eve sinned, she chose not to believe God, but another voice.
Whom we believe is the root of the problem, not sin.
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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Sea Breeze
Fisherman: Gal. 2: 20 states for born-again believers "Christ lives in me".
This was the message taken to the gentiles:
Colossians 1:27
“To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.” -
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According to Jehovah's Witnesses, who will be saved?
by Vanderhoven7 ini know who won't be saved according to witnesses and that includes just about everyone alive at armageddon who is not a jehovah’s witness.
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others who are permanently lost include adam and eve, those who died in the flood, people of sodom and gomorrah and apostates to their one true religion..
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Sea Breeze
Jesus will reply, "Don't you know what makes my Father's name known?" You counted on your works to save yourselves...as if I owed you salvation for your efforts. If you had loved me, you would have built orphanages, you would have rescued widows and the homeless..... These are the things that my sheep do because they love me and follow me...not to save themselves
Now Bro. Vanderhoven7 don't you realize that the Slave has been placed over all of God's belongings and is now his "Mouthpiece"? As such, the Slave has clarified Jesus words and parables like the Good Samaritan:
Watchtower 1954 December 15 p.759 :
"By giving the Kingdom message instead of giving mere money or material things they reach those who are really "poor in spirit," "conscious of their spiritual need," rather than just the self-seeking poor of this world who do not care to belong to Jehovah. Thus the unappreciative worldly poor who prefer to belong to Satan the "god of this system of things" are screened out."They also have given wise instruction on our duty concerning the appropriate timing of bowel movements:
Golden Age 1936 Jan 15 p.227What would we do without the Slave to explain things in a way that we can understand?
Likewise, when Jesus told us to accept the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins, we would have probably gone ahead and did that if it wasn't for the WT. readjusting our thinking.
This brother maintained a fine attitude while the elders worked tirelessly to readjust his thinking on the subject of reading the bible for himself.
